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Why I Paused Sales at $1.2M (Hormozi's Former Sales Director Says I Was Right) - Benson Chidester
Benson Chidester has seen thousands of businesses up close—from his early days at Elite CEOs to running sales at Acquisition.com. In this conversation, he breaks down the stages businesses move through as they scale, including the bottlenecks that show up at each stage and why the problem you're facing may be less unique than you think.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
- The four client archetypes Benson sees repeatedly.
- How the bottleneck changes as a business moves through different stages of growth.
- Why only a portion of businesses actually implement what they learn.
- When it makes sense to separate setter and closer roles.
- The one-minute filter Benson uses to evaluate salespeople.
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Welcome to The Ray J. Green Show, your destination for tips on sales, strategy, and self-mastery from an operator, not a guru.
About Ray:
→ Former Managing Director of National Small & Midsize Business at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, where he doubled revenue per sale in fundraising, led the first increase in SMB membership, co-built a national Mid-Market sales channel, and more.
→ Former CEO operator for several investor groups where he led turnarounds of recently acquired small businesses.
→ Current founder of MSP Sales Partners, where we currently help IT companies scale sales: www.MSPSalesPartners.com
→ Current Sales & Sales Management Expert in Residence at the world’s largest IT business mastermind.
→ Current Managing Partner of Repeatable Revenue Ventures, where we scale B2B companies we have equity in: www.RayJGreen.com
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Transcript
What I've noticed is once you get up to about 1.2 million a year to about 3 million, the biggest
Speaker:issues usually come down to, okay, now you've seen an influx of clients. Your MVP is is no longer
Speaker:good enough. You have to make it better, and you have to improve the services for the customers
Speaker:before you can add more on. And this is usually where like hiring a client success director makes
Speaker:sense. So listen, this isn't scripted. No bullshit. We're at 1.2. That was me realizing live that the
Speaker:person I was interviewing had just described my business to a tee, without knowing any of the
Speaker:numbers in it today. His name's Benson Chidester. He was employee number one at elite CEOs, which
Speaker:was his brother's company, and he eventually ran that company as a CEO. From there, he was part of
Speaker:the executive sales team at Cole Gordon's Closers, IO. And then he was personally recruited. Alex
Speaker:Mosey texted him and said, want you to come run sales at acquisition. And he did that somewhere in
Speaker:between. He advised and coached about 15,000 clients. Now he recently left acquisition. Com and
Speaker:he's on his own so he can say things that he's probably never said before. I paused sales shortly
Speaker:before this interview, and we're about to hear why that was a good thing. Let's dive in. Hey, what's up
Speaker:Benson? Thanks for, uh, thanks for joining me on the show. Appreciate it brother. Yeah, thanks for
Speaker:reaching out, man. It's, uh, it's been a little while. I know, uh, we were looking to get this on the on
Speaker:the books, and, uh, I'm glad everybody's healthy and happy, so, uh, ready to rip? Yeah, likewise. So, like.
Speaker:And just for context, for anybody, that's that's that's watching. Um, you were at acquisition. Com
Speaker:when I was with acquisition. Com doing the VAM, you were actually my advisor at the last time. The
Speaker:last time that I was there. So you actually know a little bit about my business. We've we've chatted
Speaker:before. You're no longer there. You're you're not at acquisition com now. So, um, break it down for me.
Speaker:What, what why did you take off? What do you what are you working on now? I've been contemplating
Speaker:leaving for for quite some time. There's some significant model shifts that were happening, and,
Speaker:uh, it just it just happened to line up to where, you know, things just made it easier to, you know,
Speaker:step out, work at CQC. It's it's known that it's a very fast paced environment and there's a lot of
Speaker:new things that happen. And people there work a lot and it was a great experience, very grateful
Speaker:for it. But I just went into my next thing. So, you know, I left on a Friday and then came around
Speaker:Monday and, you know, put a social media post out. And then I just had an influx of people just come
Speaker:to me and they're like, hey, we work with me. And so I've been doing my own fractional growth and
Speaker:operations offer. Uh, that's been going really well. I'm very blessed. I'll just leave it at that. But
Speaker:that's really what transpired and what made me decide to leave. And, you know, I've ran, you know, a
Speaker:company before. And so it just lined up for me to just do my own thing. And it's a little different
Speaker:when it's just you versus having a team of 100 plus people to manage. So it's been it's been
Speaker:going really well though. It's been really fun. Which one's better? Wouldn't you having a team of
Speaker:100 people to manage or just you? Well I think like based off life, I'm sure you've seen it
Speaker:happen too. And like, your arc and trajectory shifts over time. So the goal back then was
Speaker:scaling as far as humanly possible. But with that comes a lot more headaches, right? And you know
Speaker:where I'm at now. It's nice because it's just me. And so the only people I have to make sure taken
Speaker:care of are the clients that I'm working with. But everything that I do is just with me. And so it's
Speaker:been kind of nice to just not have to worry about any other person, you know, not, hey, this person's
Speaker:messing up over here. It's actually kind of nice for where I'm at in life right now. Um, how'd you
Speaker:ask me that? Like, you know, 5 or 6 years ago, I'd be like, oh, the big team. Big team. And you mentioned
Speaker:you've run a company before. So you were you were CEO at elite CEOs. I know you were, um, CIO, I think
Speaker:you were in sales. I don't know if you headed up sales. And then you were director of sales at
Speaker:acquisition comm. You've been on the fulfillment side. You've been on the sales side. I'm sure
Speaker:you've done plenty in on on the marketing side, this is a great conversation for me because you
Speaker:have a couple layers of very unique experience. Like from my perspective. One is from people who
Speaker:have turned personal brands into very successful businesses, right? And then also from the
Speaker:sales and the fulfillment side. And I think I read if this is right, like you've you've advised
Speaker:15,000 coaching clients like in in your career. And so I have a couple of questions around that.
Speaker:And the and the first one is on the coaching clients. That's a lot like that's the sample size
Speaker:is is huge. How many people actually implement what you
Speaker:advise. And for those that don't what's the pattern. Uh well it's a it's the million dollar
Speaker:question, right? Um, and it's always something that businesses are looking to solve. And my experience
Speaker:clients kind of they fall into four categories from an archetype standpoint. In my experience, uh,
Speaker:when it usually comes down to a product or service, what happens is that there's a
Speaker:streamlined process to get them results. However, clients communicate in different ways. And so
Speaker:usually. What happens in human interaction with my experience is there's a breakdown in
Speaker:communication where one person thinks they're having this conversation and the other person
Speaker:thinks they're having this, I would probably say it's, you know, probably 30 to 40% actually truly
Speaker:implement as as best they can. But I think a lot of that can come down to how you as a coach
Speaker:actually consult and communicate with that client. And so the archetypes, the first one is what we
Speaker:call a worrier. So somebody who worries a lot. So they're very risk averse. They need a lot of
Speaker:handholding, a lot of hey, you can do this. It's normal to fail because those people like they
Speaker:just they look at failures. They're terrible. When in reality it's like failure is just the
Speaker:prerequisite. You need to have success. The second type is a follower. So these are people where they
Speaker:don't necessarily grade the relationship with you and their experience on getting results, which is
Speaker:crazy. These are just people who want to have a good time. They want to feel heard, understood, have
Speaker:a good relationship. And sometimes with these clients, if you get too crazy on numbers, they shut
Speaker:down and then you don't hear from them because they're like, oh, this guy's just like, he just
Speaker:cares about my business. The numbers, the metrics, and they just want to have a personal
Speaker:conversation. The third is probably what we call controllers. So controllers, in my experience, can
Speaker:be some of the best clients, but also very difficult. These individuals are very confident
Speaker:and they're business first. And so if you show any lack of confidence and your ability to help them
Speaker:in their business, they lose trust with you immediately. And so this is probably the archetype
Speaker:I saw the most at acquisition. And it was funny because, you know, a lot of the advisors that I was
Speaker:overseeing in, you know, sales training and communication, this was the one that they
Speaker:struggled with the most. And I'm like, oh, man, like, you guys can handle these people for sure. You
Speaker:just have to be confident, right? And I think between you and me, it's like, you know, doing sales,
Speaker:you just naturally gain that confidence through conviction in what you're selling. And so that
Speaker:comes easier to others. And then the last clients a doer and I think the doers are the best people.
Speaker:They're the golden goose. They just implement like crazy. They don't need a lot of hand-holding, a lot
Speaker:of direction. You can get them very high level tactics and they can go out and do it. The only
Speaker:downside to these types of clients, they can sometimes burn themselves into oblivion very
Speaker:quickly. And so burnout is a real thing that you have to protect them from and themselves. So
Speaker:that's very far detail on like the archetypes, but I'd still probably say like 30, 40% of clients
Speaker:actually, you know, implement if you remember, from from our work together. Which archetype am I, dude,
Speaker:you I would say I would say you're a doer. Like you were very receptive to the the communication.
Speaker:You're open to feedback. Uh, you asked great questions. You were involved. You took notes. Like, I
Speaker:have loved working with you. So, like, you know, obviously when I was at Ask All Ray, I had the
Speaker:privilege of being able to work inside of his business and look under the hood and see the
Speaker:biggest bottlenecks. Matt. It was blacks like, I had a great time with you. So yeah, I'd put you in the
Speaker:doer category. From our experience, working together also fits with Will burned yourself into
Speaker:oblivion. Like actually just like an execution, bro. Trying to do is do as much as possible, as quickly
Speaker:as possible. How do you identify which archetype or who's going to fall into the 40%, and who's
Speaker:going to fall into the 60% before they get started to try to address that. Usually we're
Speaker:biggest communication breakdowns happen. I'm sure you've seen this is you know, sales team has one
Speaker:conversation and then fulfillment comes in and it's two separate conversations because there's
Speaker:breaks in the middle between communication. So the first thing is, you know, when the sales team
Speaker:actually closes the deal, getting a detailed update, which, you know, if you're a sales person
Speaker:watching this, please for the love. If you put in your metrics, you will go so much further in your
Speaker:career. Salespeople try nothing and marketers track everything. And you know, there's usually one
Speaker:conversation with fulfillment and one conversation with sales. So it's usually that
Speaker:communication there and being able to communicate, hey, this is why they bought these are potential
Speaker:red flags that I see with them. Here's the issues they've struggled with in the past. Here's what they're
Speaker:wanting. Here are their goals. Here's the business revenue. Those types of things help a lot.
Speaker:Because if you know that conversation, the sales rep just spent 45 minutes with this customer to
Speaker:an hour, in some cases, maybe longer. If you're doing multiple follow ups, they have a good idea
Speaker:what archetype they fit into. And so moving into that, when you have your onboarding call, it's like,
Speaker:hey, Ray and I had a great conversation. He mentioned, you know, XYZ in your business and
Speaker:you're wanting to do this. That's where is that accurate? Oh yeah. Cool. So it just looks like
Speaker:there's good communication. And then obviously it's like you're not right 100% of the time with
Speaker:like which archetype they are. But from that standpoint, knowing how to communicate to them
Speaker:from a sales perspective is very helpful because then we just need to get them in and take actions
Speaker:quickly. And that's really where it leads into the next segment of what you asked. Clients who get
Speaker:quick wins faster. We ran the data when I was CEO at elite CEOs. They were 45% more likely to
Speaker:upgrade into our back end offer. So in the first seven days, if they were able to book a sales call
Speaker:or make a sale, 45% higher likelihood to renew with us or upgrade in our backend program. That's
Speaker:the biggest thing, is that a lot of these clients, you know, they come in, there's a lot of things
Speaker:that are new. It's like you just need to help them get quick wins to stack more proof and belief in
Speaker:themselves, in you. And then the rest is a lot easier from there. What if you have a service that
Speaker:has a long ramp to get the the return, right? Like somebody comes to you for it's like a lot of my
Speaker:clients or they're selling IT services. This big project to get started, it's going to be six
Speaker:months before they're really just cranking and there's it's not a problem. And all this other
Speaker:shit, how do you how do you break it down into shorter wins or help them experience that? There
Speaker:was one business that I've worked with, publishing company and this company. They help people write
Speaker:books and publish books. That is not an easy task, right? You know, especially if anybody has written
Speaker:a book before who's watching this? It's like there's a lot of thought and ideation that goes
Speaker:into it, a lot of cutting the fat, trimming down rewrites, and can't I just do it all now? I'm sorry.
Speaker:I'm fucking with you. Fucking go ahead. Sorry. AI is only as good as the information you give it. Um,
Speaker:so what was interesting is that the company, they decided. Hey, what if we just help them get their
Speaker:first ten pages drafted and completed in the first seven days? And then what we'll do is we'll
Speaker:mail them that transcript. So they have visual proof, a hard copy, a tangible thing to show. Oh my
Speaker:gosh, this is amazing. I love the feeling. And so sometimes if you have a longer time horizon to
Speaker:get results, sometimes just getting something small as far as a receivable or a wind sent to
Speaker:your customer as a physical copy, because I think a lot of the times, dude in the digital age, like
Speaker:even if you get a win, it's like it's not tangible where if you get something in the mail and you
Speaker:feel it, you're like, oh my gosh, like, wow, this is awesome. So that's just like one example is just
Speaker:try to get some quick win, even if it's not the full thing. Just like something small and simple
Speaker:to help them see, like, oh, there is a benefit to this. This is a good experience. I'm actually
Speaker:receiving good services. So the other aspect of of your experience. Which I think is unique, is these
Speaker:like personal brands that have become eight plus multiple figure businesses. If you look at the
Speaker:number of people who have like, start a business on a personal brand. And maybe that's maybe that's
Speaker:what you're doing. Now, I know you're posting on IG, you're like, you have great content, by the way, and
Speaker:the if you're going to if you if you say, I'm going to scale this, I want to turn it into a
Speaker:business. Most of them don't. Right. Like, most of them cap out like at very low levels of like at
Speaker:income levels. Like at job levels. Because they don't let something go. I'm just curious. You've
Speaker:worked for three. You know, your brother Tanner, Cole, Jordan, Alex and Layla Mosey that have that
Speaker:have done it. Why do you so many businesses can buy like what is it that they did better and that
Speaker:you will do in order to scale a business with your brand or if you were going to? And what
Speaker:mistakes would you avoid? The one thing that all of those individuals have in common is that they
Speaker:have a relentless pursuit of just focusing on the task at hand. There's so many different ways that
Speaker:you can go right and so many different opportunities that come up. And so what happens is
Speaker:a lot of people I see this all the time. Sales are up. Shifting offers every 6 to 12 months, people
Speaker:starting new offers every 6 to 12 months because they don't just like, go all in and just say, I'm
Speaker:going dark to the outside world, and I'm just going to focus here for six months to a year and
Speaker:just give it my all that out of working with all those people is probably the biggest thing. And
Speaker:then, you know, if I break it down by each person, you know, my brother's specifically not the most
Speaker:politically correct person, but like, man, he's he's tenacious. That guy, like, very tenacious, just
Speaker:ruthless. You know, blue blue collar work ethic. Cole Gordon, he he's an amazing operator. And I
Speaker:would say to this day, like, he is the most fair leader that I've ever seen lead a company. And so
Speaker:I was able to learn a lot from him to see how he operates and thinks, but also how he treats people
Speaker:very fairly. I remember when I came to him, I was like, hey dude, Alex just recruited me to
Speaker:acquisition. Com this is what he's offering me. And you know how some people, they're like, oh, you're
Speaker:never gonna be successful. Like, don't do that. I think you can tell a lot about a person. Whenever
Speaker:you do something that's in your benefit and there's no benefit to them. I remember very
Speaker:distinctly having that conversation with him and he's like, yeah, man. Like he's the king right now.
Speaker:This is a killer offer. I can't beat this. Like you should do it. So, you know, so
Speaker:just just very selfless. And then, you know, Alex and Layla, obviously I work more with Alex than
Speaker:Layla, but, you know, the book launch was a really good example to just show me what is truly
Speaker:possible. Because I think all of us that are in the entrepreneurial space, we think we work hard
Speaker:until we actually push our boundaries and limits in the book launch really prove that. Like I view
Speaker:myself as a hard worker, but I was like, you know, Alex went three days in a row for like ten hours.
Speaker:Plus it was crazy. And I was just like, hey, dude, like, you broke my beliefs. Thank you. So that's
Speaker:really the biggest thing. And I think a lot of people just get stuck in too many vehicles, too
Speaker:many options. They don't decide. So they do everything half ass, and then they're stuck in the
Speaker:same cycle for every 6 to 12 months. And if I was watching this and I was one of those people
Speaker:because which is most people and I am like, I mean, we all to some degree, we get temptation and
Speaker:optionality and there's like fear that I'm on the wrong direction and maybe it's time to pivot. If I
Speaker:am that person, what would be your best advice to install that discipline in yourself? Like how
Speaker:do you install it in yourself? I think this comes more naturally to me. I am I'm referred to as a
Speaker:grandpa because I wake up early and I go to bed at like half seven, 8:00, and then I just do the
Speaker:same thing every day. Get very familiar with having the same routine. I found that routine is
Speaker:probably the number one most helpful thing to me, because I do the same thing every day and it
Speaker:helps me build compound effects. And I would just say, if you're bored, that's not necessarily a bad
Speaker:sign. And I think society nowadays everybody wants to be entertained. Being bored is usually a good
Speaker:sign if you have multiple options. Guys, the number one thing that I learned at acquisition was that
Speaker:everything matters with the model that you're in, analyzing the vehicle in the model had I had I
Speaker:known what I know now. Back when we pivoted to business consulting, we were in the fitness niche.
Speaker:Essentially, first, I would never pivoted to business. We would have just stayed in fitness
Speaker:because there's a way larger total addressable market. It's a way more profitable field, and
Speaker:there's way more people to sell to versus you go into business. It's very niche, it's very
Speaker:competitive. And, you know, you're playing with big dogs like acquisition, com etc. so hopefully that
Speaker:that answers the question. I don't want to go on too much of a tangent. No that helps. I like I
Speaker:think what's what's really interesting is I like. So I spent most of my career on the sales and
Speaker:revenue side, and I most of my career was in larger businesses. So they were already at eight
Speaker:figures and I'm optimizing. And for each of those I was able to scale sales in in the sales
Speaker:team and everything. And I never really had to care about delivery too much, like I had a COO or
Speaker:I had a team, or I had a business and I was like, I can just break shit. I can just run as fast as I
Speaker:can and sell. As I started my own business and took on the responsibilities of sales and
Speaker:delivery. I have found this constant push and so we. I did something last week that I've never, I
Speaker:thought I was allergic to. I thought I'd never say in my life as I paused sales because we're
Speaker:working on things internally and reputation and just the organic growth has reached a point where
Speaker:it's like, hey, I think we should slow down and get onboarding, right and retool some of this offer.
Speaker:And again, most of my career was like to step on the gas like it's sales cures all. You've been on
Speaker:both sides of this. And there's this push pull relationship in an early stage with all of the
Speaker:founders and businesses that you've seen. Everybody has to go through this, this push pull
Speaker:relationship. How do you coach or advise a founder through that process? When they found the
Speaker:product market fit, they're growing. They want to deliver a good service. But what level of
Speaker:suboptimal do you accept to keep growing. Do not. What's your what's your philosophy here? What's
Speaker:your advice? I analyze businesses from like a six stage sequence. As far as revenue goes. I'll go
Speaker:I'll go through the first three because they're the most relevant for this conversation. You and I
Speaker:both know. Right. And you're a sales guy. So it's like there is a dopamine factor to when you make
Speaker:a sale. Like there just is. Right? It's you know, it. It's it's for some people their nicotine, caffeine
Speaker:or whatever you call it. But you know, when you're first starting out, you know, zero to 30KA month or
Speaker:0 to 300 and 60KA year, the biggest thing you have to hone in on is having a really good offer,
Speaker:getting good at selling to, you know, your warm traffic, but also cold traffic, getting good
Speaker:results and then building client case studies and testimonials that you can use for cold traffic
Speaker:once you move on to the next stage. Stage two is more of like what I call, you know, solopreneur
Speaker:development. And this is more around, you know, your 300 and 60KA year to about, you know, 1.2 million.
Speaker:And the biggest issue here is traffic. Like you just have to hone in one traffic source to get
Speaker:really good with your marketing and efficiency to prove that it works. And then once you hone that
Speaker:in and actually think like a marketer, then it's like you just got to be able to sell people. And
Speaker:so it's like marketing and sales is skill. The third phase is where most people fall. And this is
Speaker:this is kind of like where you're at and the revenues is just like from my experience, I'm not
Speaker:saying it's like this is where you have to improve. What I've noticed is once you get up to
Speaker:about, you know, 1.2 million a year to about 3 million, the biggest issues usually come down to,
Speaker:okay, now you've seen an influx of clients. Your your MVP is is no longer good enough. You have to
Speaker:make it better and you have to improve the services for the customers before you can add
Speaker:more on. And this is usually where like hiring a client success director makes sense, come in, own
Speaker:the product, you know make it better, etc. and then you can floor the gas and start building out your
Speaker:leadership team from there. The fact that you're doing that right now is so good because the
Speaker:market now nowadays Much more educated buyers. Reputation really is everything now, and if you
Speaker:ruin your reputation, it's very hard to get that back, especially with all the AI stuff that's
Speaker:coming out. So that's usually how I analyze it. And those are usually the phases that businesses go
Speaker:through. So listen, this is unscripted. No bullshit 0%. This is we didn't talk about levels or where
Speaker:the business was. And it's been a while since you were in the business. We're at 1.2. We've had
Speaker:$300,000 months in a row, and we're literally at the point that you just said so. I'd say you you
Speaker:break the the segments down about. Right, because it's the exact moment that we're, we're hitting
Speaker:the same thing. So we're, we're seeing that play up. Good problem to have man. It's a great problem to
Speaker:have that. Hey I have so many people coming in. We got to make our product better. Yeah, it's better
Speaker:than the other problem. But you know, I think it speaks to when people start businesses, they tend
Speaker:to go into it with one side of the house as a strength. Like, I mean, typically, you know, in my
Speaker:case, my customers, they're strong on the IT piece. By the time they get to me, they're like, dude. Our
Speaker:service is so systematized and so damn good. Like, you could, I could, I could triple the volume and
Speaker:be perfectly fine. I come from the other side and I just want to grow the shit, you know? And so it's
Speaker:like, you know, I. Have you seen any pattern with do partnerships perform better
Speaker:than solo founders. If it's a startup now, um, in my experience, what usually happens is, you know,
Speaker:people get a bunch of partners. There's more conversations needed to move the business forward.
Speaker:Partnerships, in my opinion, only makes sense once the business is established and you decide to
Speaker:bring people in who have certain expertise and skills that you don't have or possess. So, you know,
Speaker:case in point, like I'll just use acquisition comm, for example, the reason why Alex and Layla brought
Speaker:in Sharon as the president, now he's the CEO is because he scaled companies to billions of
Speaker:dollars, which they have not done. And so he possesses a certain type of skill set that they
Speaker:do not have. And therefore, the partnership made a lot of sense to bring him in. A lot of times I see
Speaker:people just bring in partners and they either have the same skill set or they just bring in
Speaker:partners to, you know, bring in partners, and it doesn't work because somebody usually gets mad.
Speaker:They leave. They have to dissolve the partnership. Dude, I can't even tell you how many people I've
Speaker:talked to. And they're like, yeah, I had to buy all my partners. So I'm in a terrible spot. I'm just
Speaker:like, should have never had a partner. How would you. Handle is it you hire for the other that you
Speaker:hire for the weakness? So if you're a solo founder and you come in with the IT experiences, hey,
Speaker:you've got to hire a boss of a sales person. Like, that's like somebody that really knows what
Speaker:they're doing. Is it? Is that typically the pattern 100%? Because if you're both good at sales and
Speaker:marketing, it's like, who's going to handle operations and client fulfillment? You're selling
Speaker:a lot of people, but then your fulfillment is terrible and your product is terrible. So you're
Speaker:just churning and burning. But yeah, always hire for the opposite of what your skill sets are. You
Speaker:have a ton of experience. I love your content on on sales like sales leadership, sales management,
Speaker:like the what discovery really is, what sales really is. If somebody calls you and they're there.
Speaker:Call it $5 million kind of B2B style style business. They're more of a technical founder and
Speaker:they're like, listen, we're capped at we think our sales suck. Maybe I've got a sales guy I think is
Speaker:underperforming. You want to do an audit and get to the root cause. What's what are you looking for?
Speaker:Like what? Walk me through your thought process and how you approach diagnosing. What exactly is
Speaker:wrong in in sales. You know, obviously the level of buyer's awareness matters a lot in these
Speaker:conversations. So, you know, if you're probably familiar with Eugene Schwartz, but forever who's
Speaker:watching? This guy is Eugene Schwartz. He's the OG of marketing. He's got a book. It's like $200 best
Speaker:book I've ever read. But he talks about buyer's awareness in the funnel. Right. So you have
Speaker:completely unaware. And then you move down from, you know, you have problem product solution. And
Speaker:then most aware, if I'm having a conversation with somebody, my first question when they come on is
Speaker:how did you how did you find out about us? How long have you been following the brand? Because if
Speaker:I know somebody coming on and they've known, you know me or. They've known Ray for a long time. I'm
Speaker:accelerating that deal. If they're like, oh, I just. I just found out about you guys through an ad. I'm
Speaker:taking a much more consultative approach. And usually when it's a business to business service,
Speaker:regardless if they think it's a sales problem, I need to get more information to understand. Is it
Speaker:truly just sales or is there something happening within their offer that they're not aware about
Speaker:or their marketing? So I like to start from offer, then go into marketing, then go into sales. From a
Speaker:sales perspective, usually the things I like to look at, I call it the big three is like, are they
Speaker:doing, you know, daily meetings? Do they have KPIs? Do they actually have end of day reports with
Speaker:their team? And then based off their past three metrics throughout past three months of metrics,
Speaker:from how many calls they had, how many leads they had, how many closes AOV, I can usually pinpoint
Speaker:where the issue is, but I like figuring out the whole business, not just the sales, because I think
Speaker:sometimes we get so hyper focused on here's just like, here's one thing and granite, you don't need
Speaker:anything else to sell somebody. But if I have full picture, full understanding and I'm having a
Speaker:consultative approach. My goal is to teach that person something new that they haven't thought
Speaker:about, because then they're like, Holy crap, this guy just taught me something new. I trust him, I
Speaker:like him, and it makes this selling process a lot easier. So that's usually how I like to approach
Speaker:it. What would you change about? Call it like the discovery phase based on the where they're at, the
Speaker:awareness. Do you skip just like skip certain parts of it or you're writing that playbook? What
Speaker:would you change based on on his his funnel? Most aware is like I've closed deals in
Speaker:five minutes from most aware buyers because I'm like, how'd you hear about us? Oh, I have a friend
Speaker:who worked with you. This company, they've gotten good results. I've seen you guys for three years.
Speaker:Okay, cool. So, like, your friends have gotten good results. I know so-and-so and so-and-so. Um, are you
Speaker:at the point where you're just ready to pull the trigger? Or do you need more information? And I'm
Speaker:ready to pull the trigger? You sure you're ready to jump in, and then you just close the deal? If
Speaker:it's somebody who's like, oh, I just found out. I like to take a much more, uh, enterprise approach.
Speaker:So what I'll do on some of these calls, Ray, and I'm sure you've probably done this, too, is I'll do
Speaker:a takeaway on those meetings. You know, I might only get through 30 to 45 minutes in pure
Speaker:discovery and what I call a pre pitch, which is just giving them high level. Here's what I'm
Speaker:seeing. And here's some things that we can help with. And I won't even go into the full pitch or
Speaker:try to pitch them. I'll take a takeaway. I'm like, hey Ray, you aren't even ready for what I have to
Speaker:offer. I still need to suss out if you're still a good fit and you need more information to make a
Speaker:good, educated decision, then at that point I give them micro commitments, send them homework
Speaker:material. Bam bam. Make sure they watch the material before. And then on the second call I'll
Speaker:usually close them. But that was another one of my questions is about the sales. Because the high
Speaker:ticket online space you have a lot of one call close styles is we've moved into B2B and
Speaker:what we do there's it's almost always discovery. There's like a business discovery, some technical
Speaker:discovery. Then there's, you know, actual closing. What changes about the sales process, meaning
Speaker:everything from who you would hire a different person to run that process. Do you like do you
Speaker:lead in a different way? Like how do you how does the how does your thought about sales change as
Speaker:the the stages get a little bit more extended? Yeah, yeah. Great question. Um, the way I look at it
Speaker:is if it's a fairly technical sale, right, and there's a lot of nuances, etc., you need to have
Speaker:somebody who's very experienced and understands that niche and market if it's a non-technical
Speaker:sale. Right. So let's just say, you know, health and wellness, you can get somebody pretty fresh and
Speaker:green and coach them up pretty well and get them working through the process. Now, as far as the
Speaker:buying cycles go. You know, it depends on how technical the tech is that you're going into. But
Speaker:it is not uncommon for somebody to do the initial discovery and then pass off to a developer, right,
Speaker:to kind of do the, the technical and then pass back and have more team communication. I am a big
Speaker:fan of I do not care how many deals close in one call, I just want the deal to close.
Speaker:So like I made a lot of my money threw really good follow up. And, you know, creating
Speaker:relationships and talking to the customers longer than just one time, regardless of whatever you
Speaker:guys do, whoever's watching this, the best thing you can do in sales is just be very diligent and
Speaker:your follow up, make sure that you're hitting your hot list very consistently, and your general list
Speaker:at least once every 30 days. That moves deals faster than I've seen anything else. And there's
Speaker:different styles of follow up, but that's usually how I like to approach those situations. You
Speaker:mentioned this the hand off, like, you know, sales person, technical person, you know, and I think it's
Speaker:similar with SDR to AI versus full cycle sales person. What's better, a
Speaker:component based system that scales probably more efficiently, or a full cycle sales
Speaker:process where someone owns effectively the entire the entire process? Yeah. I mean, I've seen
Speaker:both works, so, like, there's no right or wrong way. In my experience, though, with all the teams that
Speaker:I've scaled out, having the components siphoned off usually is just more efficient. Because if I
Speaker:have somebody who's setting and then I have somebody who's closing and they can just focus on
Speaker:that 24 over seven, you just get way higher production out of that because like ease, you know,
Speaker:you can you can try them in all you want at ease. I mean, dude, like I've seen some ease. They do the
Speaker:setting, they do the closing and they do the fulfillment. You're like, well, dude, no wonder you
Speaker:can't sell more. You're over here stuck in fulfillment or like vice versa. So usually
Speaker:siphoning that off and having separate divisions or separate people for that. It allows easier
Speaker:scale because you can have better expertise and focus within the company. And that's the biggest
Speaker:thing that stops a lot of people from scaling once again. And very few people are good at great
Speaker:at all of those things. They might be good enough at fulfillment in a great closer, and they don't
Speaker:want to hunt. Or they like usually getting all three of those. You've got different skill sets
Speaker:and kind of different personalities that that go into that. But the, the argument usually against it
Speaker:is there's friction like there's, there's shit that you lose and the process and I know like we
Speaker:say document in the CRM, but the A's does hardly ever goes back and listens to the actual set call
Speaker:and you. And so things get lost in between. How do you make it more efficient? How do you not lose
Speaker:stuff in between. Guys if you aren't using a note takers? It's just like, please use them. I mean, you
Speaker:can get a gist of what that conversation had in five seconds just by typing it in your fathom.
Speaker:Also, it just comes down to your sales reps and your sales team actually tracking their metrics.
Speaker:So what I like is when a setter sets for a closer. I've always had the SOP where they drop a voice
Speaker:note on that individual as long as the fathom is linked to that person's profile, so they get both
Speaker:in a slack message and a quick update of like, here's their biggest pains, here's what they want
Speaker:help with, etc. having a 32nd overview can give you a lot more insight than probably trying to go
Speaker:and find anything in any CRM. In my experience, it just has to happen. Voice note. Document what
Speaker:they're looking for, what they've tried, what their hesitations are. Bottlenecks. Because end of the
Speaker:day, if I get that ahead of time and I'm a sales rep and I know they might just have a logistics
Speaker:issue, I'm already planning for that in the close, and I'm prepared to handle that. And I'm ready and
Speaker:I won't. You know, before the call where I think a lot of, you know, sales reps, they lose a lot of
Speaker:their nerve in the clothes because they're praying and hoping that they don't get an
Speaker:objection. And in reality, if you go into that call already aware of, hey, this is probably going to be
Speaker:an objection. Oh, cool. It's just normal. It's part of the process. Boom. I can handle this. As cool as
Speaker:a cucumber. I saw a post of yours recently. You said, um, that's not a present. That's not a sales
Speaker:call. That's a presentation. What's the difference for somebody listening. If you use a slide deck?
Speaker:I'm not against them all, you know? But I think when it comes to presentations, that's where my
Speaker:head goes is, oh, look at our cool product. Let me just talk at you for 45 minutes when you
Speaker:actually have a conversation with somebody. You're asking them questions, and when you ask the
Speaker:questions, you can get a lot of clarity on why they're feeling it. So if you ask a question, for
Speaker:example, you know, talk to me about marketing. What have you guys tried for marketing? Oh, wow. Can you
Speaker:can you like can you elaborate more on that? Could you give me a specific example? Oh, cool. Do you do
Speaker:you mind? Like just like clarifying what you mean by that. So you can just dive deeper because
Speaker:you're actually trying to find the root of the problem versus. Here's my presentation. Let me just
Speaker:read through the script. If you like it, you can buy. If not, no worries. It takes more emotional
Speaker:intelligence and it takes more skill to do that, in my experience. But that's the best type of
Speaker:closing because they actually feel like you care and you're trying to give them a solution as a
Speaker:consultant versus a used car salesman. It's funny because I use a similar language in the past, and
Speaker:it's because on the IT side, most of the sellers have a slide deck. They've created it. It's
Speaker:customized for for whoever they're presenting to. It's more of a presentation than it is a sales
Speaker:call. And and I. It's like I'm going to go through this and it's kind of like, hey. Did a good job. I'm
Speaker:sure you want to think about this, so I'll let you go. And they never they never a lot of times don't
Speaker:even ask for the money, which is mind boggling. But because of that, they never get the objections.
Speaker:They never have the real conversations that prevent people from moving forward in the process.
Speaker:So it's they present and then they leave people to their own devices to like, go make the
Speaker:decision with the information they've given them. And you're like, you wonder why you're getting
Speaker:ghosted all the time and shit like that. It's the it's the two different conversations that are
Speaker:happening, right? It's like one person's having this conversation, one person's having another. And
Speaker:so there's no conformity there between the communication. And then they leave the room with
Speaker:that gap still still in existence. And the sales person's job is to close that gap. Like that's
Speaker:actually that's actually it. So similar exercise on fulfillment side. So you've seen of, you know,
Speaker:15,000 people. You get to a stage, you know, a million, million plus and you're growing.
Speaker:But the execution on the team, like you've tried SOPs, you've like you've tried to document some
Speaker:stuff, but you just find as you grow beyond you doing fulfillment and you handing off
Speaker:fulfillment to now to other people to implement what you've put in place, that the execution just
Speaker:isn't getting done. You've tried documentation. You've tried SOP and shit. How do you improve
Speaker:execution within a new, fresh team in an early stage company? My answer to this has two
Speaker:components. Um, the first is in most cases, for anybody watching this, if you can get your team
Speaker:up to 80% of what you can do. That's that's a huge one. Massive one. Because what happens with a lot
Speaker:of founders in this stage is they have a fear of letting go, and they fight and struggle with it
Speaker:for so long that a lot of them, because they fight and struggle with it for so long, they actually
Speaker:lose out on a lot of opportunities and revenue that come their way because as a founder and CEO,
Speaker:right? If we just define what a CEO's job is, the job is to move the company forward and make sure
Speaker:that it's making money and profitable. And so the two areas that most founders need to spend their
Speaker:most time in to start is marketing in sales. The second thing is, as far as documenting SOPs, etc.,
Speaker:what I have found, you can document SOP till you know the cows come home. But if your level and
Speaker:caliber of talent is not good enough, it creates friction in the process. And so case
Speaker:in point, you know, uh, my division was all seven figure business owners when
Speaker:I ran a late CEOs. So they either had businesses that completely ran on their own or they had been
Speaker:seven figure business owners. And so the reason why that helped so much was because they didn't
Speaker:get a whole lot from a base perspective, but because they were good at selling and they were
Speaker:good at getting people results. They made all their money on the back end. Some of you guys like
Speaker:if you're in the startup phase, etc., you guys might be worried to hire good people because you
Speaker:might have to pay them more. When in reality it's like, okay, what's the cost and return and the
Speaker:renewals and upgrades and the retention that this person will bring the company. And so those are
Speaker:usually the two areas that I've seen that like solve that problem the most. Um, just just my $0.02
Speaker:on what I've seen. Y. So those were A's that were closing and they had seven figure businesses. Why
Speaker:why were they closing? These were people who just bought into the vision and the goal of the
Speaker:company and the growth opportunity that was at hand with us. And so it's it's funny, right? Because
Speaker:like you're like, dude, they have their own business. Why why didn't they just want to keep
Speaker:doing that again? Dude, there's there's different phases of life. And it's interesting because I
Speaker:asked the same question. One of them, they're just like, I just love your guys brand and I just want
Speaker:to work for you guys. She was awesome. Like, we're still we're still in touch to this day. She's
Speaker:amazing. She still runs her company. You know, some people, they just see a brand or they they like
Speaker:somebody so much that they're just like, dude, I want to be a part of what you guys are doing
Speaker:because either you've helped me get results with the content, the course, the program, the consultant
Speaker:you've given me, or they're just like, I love what you guys have to offer, and I want to be a part of
Speaker:that. And it is interesting because for me, from a human characteristics standpoint, status is one of
Speaker:the biggest drivers that we have. And so sometimes people attach status to what you're doing and
Speaker:it's like, oh, wow. And dude, to be honest, like when I got recruited at AQ, that was a big part of it,
Speaker:right? Alex recruited me personally and I'm like, oh, acquisition. It's the biggest company there is
Speaker:right now in this space. There's status attached to that. And so I think that was a big reason why
Speaker:we were able to get a lot of people. Tell me the story. Alex reached out to you personally. Hadn't
Speaker:had that conversation go. Yeah, yeah. It was funny. Um, so yeah, he texted me. I
Speaker:didn't have his number before, but he texted me because, you know, people through his network had,
Speaker:you know, sent me up to him. They needed a director of sales. And he just literally just. Hey, it's her
Speaker:mosey. Let me know when you're free. And so you know. When I had a gap, I was like, hey, I got some
Speaker:time. Hop on. Zoom. You know, he's like, he's in his office. It's super, you know, super dim lighting,
Speaker:like, just man cave to the max. And, uh, you know, he's just like, well, I've heard good things, and,
Speaker:you know, I need a director of sales. So what do you need? And and so I was like, well, I mean, to
Speaker:make this make sense, I'd need, you know, ABC, he's like, oh, that's not a problem. I'm probably
Speaker:forgetting a lot of stuff. I'm going to get the team involved. Um, so yeah, we'll move you to the
Speaker:next phase. But I'm missing a lot of things. And then basically what happened is the team came in,
Speaker:they did culture, technical. Um, and then I went on site. Then I met with Layla, then I met with Alex
Speaker:again. And then then they flew me out one more time. They took me and my wife out to dinner. So,
Speaker:like, all in all, with all the meetings, I had about eight meetings before all all was said and done
Speaker:and I was brought on to the team. What was interesting for that was it taught me two things.
Speaker:Number one is there needs to be multiple people involved in the hiring process because sometimes
Speaker:we get, you know, beer goggles for for the attractive hire. And we're like, oh, this person's
Speaker:so good. But we sometimes miss the red flags because of that. And then also to, you know, the way
Speaker:that my recruiting process went is like, you know, they they just made me feel like a million bucks,
Speaker:right? They put a lot of care and attention and detail into just where I was staying, how I was
Speaker:getting to the office, you know, where we went to eat. And so, you know, that was kind of a unique
Speaker:experience for me because, you know, I've just been online my whole life and they they kind of wined
Speaker:and dined me. And so that was kind of a fun experience. But it taught me those two things. It's
Speaker:probably the difference in headhunting the person you want and then putting out like a broadcast
Speaker:and feeling like you've got a screen, people coming in. And I know you've hired hundreds of
Speaker:salespeople over the years when you broadcast and you're like, listen, we need our next closer, we
Speaker:need our next sales person. We need our next Sutter. What do you recommend people use to filter
Speaker:the best candidates? Do you have any cheat sheets or processes or mental models you use? Yeah. I mean,
Speaker:the best thing I found to filter out high volume, uh, positions where you're constantly recruiting
Speaker:one minute loom video. So, you know, to to explain that I'm sure you guys do this, but
Speaker:what I found is that I can tell a lot from how somebody conducts themselves in a loom, especially
Speaker:for sales. It's like if they sound like, hello, Benson, please hire me. It's probably not gonna
Speaker:work out, right? Um, but, you know, if they can give me an overview of why they're a good fit. And
Speaker:here's what I see is a good fit. Somebody who has actual track record and experience and they
Speaker:explain that versus. So I'm a hard worker. I'm diligent. I'm hungry. Those always get dxd.
Speaker:Um, and if they stick to the time limit. So if I say I want a one minute loom video and I'm hiring
Speaker:for a high volume position, usually anybody over that minute I don't even take a look at because
Speaker:I'm like, you can't even follow a simple direction. What makes me think that you're going to be able
Speaker:to close a 15, you know, to, to $100,000 deal. So the loom process is what I use. I'm sure
Speaker:you guys are using something similar. Yeah. If they don't follow the directions here, they're not very
Speaker:likely to follow your SOP or your playbook or whatever it is that you put together for them.
Speaker:Different question on like working with your brother. Um, a lot of family businesses that I work
Speaker:with and they, you know, they either they're hiring family members or whatever is,
Speaker:is and some people are like hard. No. Like, nope. I'm not working with with family. Is it a good idea?
Speaker:It's interesting you asked that because like I, it was actually a like I'm so grateful for that
Speaker:experience. I don't think I would go back and like change. Um, the six years that me and my brothers
Speaker:work together, I think as long as you're similar in like values and work ethic, it can work out
Speaker:very, very well. The issue that I see with, you know, people hiring family members is, you know, hiring
Speaker:people just to hire them. And they don't have the same ethics, values or, you know, desires as you do.
Speaker:And so that's usually where a lot of friction is, cause I think it can work. Um, you know, obviously
Speaker:it worked for us for six years and then, you know, it didn't. Up to a certain point, because we all
Speaker:wanted to go do our own thing. Um, but yeah, I think if if you're in those same categories, it can work
Speaker:really well. But obviously it's like family's family. And so what I will say the challenge to
Speaker:that is, is the line between business and pleasure. Right. And so at least for, for us, my
Speaker:brothers and I, we found it really hard to just like sit down and just chat if it was and like
Speaker:not have business come up. And so it's like if you're a family member who just wants to be able
Speaker:to have that, I would highly recommend don't do it. But if you're like, hey, I can navigate those
Speaker:waters and I'm cool with it, then bring it on a family member with those ethics and work values
Speaker:and visions that you have can work out very nicely. Yeah, I've seen it work both ways. Most of
Speaker:my family members don't want to work with me at all. So they're like, nah, you're good. My wife's
Speaker:like, no, I'll, I'll run everything else. Like you, you do that part. Yeah. Well, well let me. Let me
Speaker:focus on the visuals. Yeah. Let me. I'll the environment. I'll get all this other shit I'll
Speaker:take care of. But, like, I'm not actually gonna work with you. Like. No, that's a bad idea. Um, I've got
Speaker:two, two quick questions on. Kind of like, social media ish. Uh, one is. So you chose
Speaker:Instagram as, like your, as your platform primarily, I think primarily as, like the place to be is
Speaker:where you've got the freshest content. Why'd you pick Instagram and how do you get as much content,
Speaker:high quality content as you do out without a big content team? Yeah. Great question. So, uh,
Speaker:the way I look at it is Instagram has just always been the best platform for me from an engagement
Speaker:standpoint. And clients, uh, as far as where I've gotten them from. And so like, I'm not saying
Speaker:LinkedIn can't work. It definitely can. Facebook can definitely work. That's just where it's worked
Speaker:for me. And I think it's it's very similar for a lot of folks. I know some people are really big on
Speaker:LinkedIn because they just get all their clients from there, but I get the most engagement, get the
Speaker:most clients. So I was just like, hey, let me just go all in on this channel. And I don't really
Speaker:focus on Facebook that much anymore. LinkedIn I think I have two posts that I put up there
Speaker:recently just to like have something up there, but I focus all my time and attention there because I
Speaker:get the best results. Um, as far as the content goes, I always get the best feedback in the most
Speaker:interaction when it's anything sales. And so, you know, for for somebody who's a sales guy, you know,
Speaker:themselves like you dude, you know, you probably get sick of talking about sales as much as you do.
Speaker:Right? And you're like, man, I want to talk about something else. But every time I post about sales,
Speaker:it's just like it just gets the best reach, it gets the best interactions and it gets the most
Speaker:likes. And, you know, I get the most clients from it. It's not about what you want to talk about all
Speaker:the time. It's more so what is your audience telling you they are liking and they want, and
Speaker:then doing more about. Um, and as far as putting out a lot of content guys, It's like you just have
Speaker:to decide to do it. So I had done content, you know, for a while, and then I took some time off. Uh, and
Speaker:then when I got recruited to acquisition, I made a goal. I was like, I'm going to start posting every
Speaker:single day at least once a day. Sometimes I'll post multiple. And I'm not doing this to brag. I'm
Speaker:just doing this to to drive the point home, my follower account went from, I think it was like
Speaker:2223 ish to like 30, 33, 34, something like that. So
Speaker:just by posting every day consistently for a year, I got 10,000 plus new weeds. I had a way more
Speaker:interaction. And so the way I look at content guys is it's a journal. And so the coolest way that you
Speaker:can make content is just pulling up your calendar. Look at what you've done that week, look at the
Speaker:conversations you had. And there is your content. That is how I create it. I just what's top of mind
Speaker:what happened this week? Cool. I'm gonna make these topics done. That's it. Um,
Speaker:also Instagram edits app. Super easy to use guys like if you're shooting any type of like head
Speaker:talking videos, just use the edits app. It's it's a game changer. How many hours a week do you would
Speaker:you say you spend doing content for Instagram? Maybe. Maybe two hours, but it's not a lot.
Speaker:I know my content can be way better, but it's like if I can do two hours a week and get those
Speaker:results, imagine what you could get to. Well, and you think about like, I mean, you've I think the
Speaker:the trend in content is more raw, authentic and less performative now anyway. So it's, it's it's
Speaker:more real. Um, the last question I have for you, because I know you got shit to do, it's really
Speaker:just about the space. Like the online online growth, online marketing, coaching space over the
Speaker:years has has taken a hit in reputation. And it's become harder for good,
Speaker:legitimately good coaches to use content in their brand. And, you know, teaching like that, that
Speaker:type of, uh, Growth strategy. How much of that reputation is is warranted
Speaker:and how are you leveraging? How are you adapting to the changes and and
Speaker:that trend to launch what your launching or do what you're doing now? Yeah, yeah. Great question. Um,
Speaker:well, it's interesting you asked that because it's definitely gone in a life cycle. So, you know, I
Speaker:would say the golden ages of like the high ticket info space was probably 2015 to probably 2018. And
Speaker:obviously there's internet markers. One of my mentors is a big internet marketer. Um, his, uh, his
Speaker:cousins, actually, Russell Brunson's, uh, his wife is Russell Brunson's cousin. So that's how I got
Speaker:introduced to Clickfunnels and stuff. It's interesting because that was like the golden age,
Speaker:so you could just sell anything and everybody was hot, right? And buying it like hotcakes. Now what's
Speaker:happened is buyers are more educated. People have been burned a lot. Um, and so there's there's less
Speaker:trust in the market. And so I think buying cycles of have increased um which on two fronts. It's
Speaker:like I think business owners are still trying to get as many like one call closes as possible, or
Speaker:buyers who've just found out about them in 30 days. And that's just not the case. You have to
Speaker:expand your time horizon. I think also, too, it is warranted to a certain degree, because I think you
Speaker:see a lot of the coaches and what I've noticed with the online coaching community, somebody will
Speaker:come in, they'll be really hot for two years, and then you'd never hear about them again. They
Speaker:basically just ride a quick high because they're the newcomer to the space and they get some, you
Speaker:know, quick wins, quick results, etc. and then it just dies out because they never ideate the
Speaker:product or make it better focus on retention. They just kind of churn and burn clients, the coaching
Speaker:businesses that do the best and that are still in business today. They use a unique front end
Speaker:mechanism. They get you in on that mechanism, and then the clients are delighted by everything else
Speaker:that happens. So one of the reasons, um, why I decided to, you know, join closers and when I was a
Speaker:part of the executive sales team, everything they do on the front end, it has to do with placing
Speaker:appointment setters and closers. And so that's a specific need that solves a specific problem for
Speaker:a specific person. And then once the the business owners come in the ecosystem, they're like, Holy
Speaker:crap, you're not just helping me with the sales person. You guys actually understand how
Speaker:businesses operate. This is way better than I would have imagined. So a lot of the times, it's
Speaker:just the unique angle that you're taking. Because if it's just general business coaching, it's not
Speaker:unique at all. And so the way that I'm leveraging that right now, it's funny because I've actually
Speaker:talked to a lot of my mentors, all my mentors have pretty much said something very similar. They're
Speaker:like, I made all my money from the age of 31 to 36. All my mentors right there, like that's where I
Speaker:made the most money. And so, like, I'm right in there, right? So I'm like, okay, so I have a lot of
Speaker:opportunity. And the way that I'm leveraging that now is I'm coming at it from a growth and
Speaker:operational perspective as a fractional consultant, where I can come in to get very hands
Speaker:on with the support that you need and give you real time strategy solutions. Uh, you know, input
Speaker:sales systems, processes, build out the scripts, train your sales teams so I can get very hands on.
Speaker:And where I see the coaching market is you have one end of the spectrum where it's just only
Speaker:network. There's no accountability, no one on one support, or it's just very general, hey, you get a
Speaker:random coach, etc. so I'm coming right in as you can work with the expert. I only take on a certain
Speaker:amount of clients, so I price my my tickets as very high. And so I only work with clients that I
Speaker:want to work with. And it's been working so far. So we'll see where trends go. But that's that's what
Speaker:I'm doing right now. Congratulations, brother. Um, I'm thanks for for hopping on. I know you've
Speaker:you've you've got to run here. So, um, you know, we can certainly do this again. Enjoyed the
Speaker:conversation. And, uh, look forward to, uh, to follow in on brother. Of course. Thanks for having me.
